Reit ETF - Accumulating - Bogleheads.org (2024)

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Nuno
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:14 am

Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby Nuno »

Hello,

I am European Investor, looking to replace the current ETF I have on my portfolio.
Currently I have 'db x-trackers FTSE EPRA/NAR Dev Eur RE UCITS ETF', which replicates the Index:
EPRA/NAREIT Developed Europe.

I don't have any particular reason to invest on 'Developed Europe'. The same way I hold a World Stocks ETF, I must hold a Global Reit ETF. Something replicating index FTSE EPRA/NAREIT Global.

So, the question is, where can I find a accumulating (non distributing) Global REIT ETF?

Thanks for all your help.

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mhalley
Posts: 10404
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:02 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby mhalley »

I don't know about Europe, but in the us reits must distribute 90% of dividends. So I don't know whether an "accumulating" reit exists. .FromInvestopedia:
"REITs are required by law to maintain dividend payout ratios of at least 90%, making them a favorite for income-seeking investors. REITs can deduct these dividends and avoid most or all tax liabilities, though investors still pay income tax on the payouts they receive."

Read more: Real Estate Investment Trust - REIT Definition | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rei ... z4VYtKSL1J
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook

From reit.com

The majority of REIT laws around the world mirror the U.S. approach to REIT-based real estate investment.

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Nuno
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:14 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby Nuno »

Thank you mhalley.

In your opinion, makes any sense to invest on a restricted ETF, like 'Developed Europe' (the only accumulating ETF I found)?
Since is not possible to find a global Accumulating REIT, shouldn't be better to alocate the REIT money on another asset?

Thanks

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mhalley
Posts: 10404
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:02 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby mhalley »

Sorry I do not know the answer. Bogleheads that slice and dice often use reits as the first expansion out of the three fund portfolio, but no one knows if that will be a good idea going forward.

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Valuethinker
Posts: 48847
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby Valuethinker »

mhalley wrote:I don't know about Europe, but in the us reits must distribute 90% of dividends. So I don't know whether an "accumulating" reit exists. .FromInvestopedia:
"REITs are required by law to maintain dividend payout ratios of at least 90%, making them a favorite for income-seeking investors. REITs can deduct these dividends and avoid most or all tax liabilities, though investors still pay income tax on the payouts they receive."

Read more: Real Estate Investment Trust - REIT Definition | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rei ... z4VYtKSL1J
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook

From reit.com

The majority of REIT laws around the world mirror the U.S. approach to REIT-based real estate investment.

It's a European funds issue.

The underlying REITs are still meeting the law *in countries that have REITs* (not all do).

The fund itself (next level up) is either Distributing (pays out all income from investments) or Accumulating (does not).

THe issue arises because European investors, depending on country, only pay capital gains when they sell the units, they are not flowed through to the holders' taxes every year when the fund realizes investments.

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Valuethinker
Posts: 48847
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby Valuethinker »

Nuno wrote:Hello,

I am European Investor, looking to replace the current ETF I have on my portfolio.
Currently I have 'db x-trackers FTSE EPRA/NAR Dev Eur RE UCITS ETF', which replicates the Index:
EPRA/NAREIT Developed Europe.

I don't have any particular reason to invest on 'Developed Europe'. The same way I hold a World Stocks ETF, I must hold a Global Reit ETF. Something replicating index FTSE EPRA/NAREIT Global.

So, the question is, where can I find a accumulating (non distributing) Global REIT ETF?

Thanks for all your help.

There are various lists eg of Dublin listed ETFs out there.

Check Ishares. They don't have a global Real Estate ETF?

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Topic Author

Nuno
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:14 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby Nuno »

Hello,

There are a couple of Global Reit ETFs here in Europe:
SPDR Dow Jones Global Real Estate UCITS ETF
or
Think Global Real Estate UCITS ETF

But none accumulating.

I have 3 options:

1) Invest on non-global Reit ETF: db x-trackers FTSE EPRA/NAR Dev Eur RE UCITS ETF :
Pro: Accumulating ETF
Con: Non Global, limited to developed Europe
2) Invest on global Reit ETF
Pro: Global ETF
Con: Distributing dividends, less tax efficient
3) Allocate the money to a different asset
Pro: Follow the rules: tax efficiency and avoid niche ETFs (European Reit is a niche to me)
Con: Lose the diversification REIT investment can give.

Not sure, what option to take....

Any suggestion?

Thanks

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kotrfa
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:59 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby kotrfa »

Hey. I just stumbled upon this very same issue - no accumulating global REITs (e.g. iShares has none). Did you find any "solution"?

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finvestor
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:22 pm

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby finvestor »

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finvestor
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:22 pm

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby finvestor »

Actually, I would be interested in hearing opinions on the ETF I linked in the previous post. Any thoughts on it?

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imperia
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:31 am

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby imperia »

TER is 0.64% which is high.

Why not https://www.ishares.com/uk/individual/e ... s-etf-fund
Same ETF, Acc but not hedget. TER is 0.59% but that is too high for me.

There is Amundi Global REIT ETF Acc, but it is Luxembourg domicile.
https://www.justetf.com/uk/etf-profile. ... 1437018838
TER is just 0.24%

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finvestor
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:22 pm

Re: Reit ETF - Accumulating

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Postby finvestor »

Good point on the cheaper non-hedged variant of the iShares ETF.

Besides TER and domicile, the main difference between the iShares ans Amundi offerings seems to be that the iShares ETF invests only in REITs with high enough dividend yield, whereas the Amundi one does not seem to apply any screens like that. Is anyone aware of how these two approaches have performed in the past, i.e., is there evidence supporting the idea that high yield REITs would be a better/worse investment than those with a lower yield?

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Reit ETF - Accumulating - Bogleheads.org (2024)

FAQs

What is the 90% rule for REITs? ›

To qualify as a REIT, a company must have the bulk of its assets and income connected to real estate investment and must distribute at least 90 percent of its taxable income to shareholders annually in the form of dividends.

Are REIT ETFs worth it? ›

REIT ETFs are a smart investment for most retail investors. They provide professional REIT selection and excellent diversification in a single, highly liquid security that trades like an individual stock.

How are real estate ETFs taxed? ›

Equity REIT ETF dividends are generally taxed at the investor's ordinary income tax rate, while mortgage REIT ETF dividends are generally taxed at the investor's long-term capital gains tax rate. 2. Tax Bracket: The taxation of REIT ETF dividends also depends on the investor's tax bracket.

What is the difference between a REIT and an ETF? ›

The main differences between a real estate ETF vs. REIT lie in how they're structured, dividend payouts, taxes, and the fees investors might pay to own them. Also, REITs are considered alternative investments, which means they tend not to move in sync with traditional investments like stocks and bonds.

What is the 2 year rule for REIT? ›

The REIT's ownership (which must be proven by transferable shares or by transferable certificates of beneficial interest) must be held by at least 100 shareholders for at least 335 days of a 365-day calendar year (or equivalent thereof for a short tax year) for the second taxable year and beyond.

What is the REIT 10 year rule? ›

For Group REITs, the consequences of leaving early apply when the principal company of the group gives notice for the group as a whole to leave the regime within ten years of joining or where an exiting company has been a member of the Group REIT for less than ten years.

What I wish I knew before investing in REITs? ›

REITs must prioritize short-term income for investors

In exchange for more ongoing income, REITs have less to invest for future returns than a growth mutual fund or stock. “REITs are better for short-term cash flow and income versus long-term upside,” says Stivers.

What is the downside of REITs? ›

When investing only in REITs, individuals incur more risk than when they are part of a diversified portfolio. REITs can be sensitive to interest rates and may not be as tax-friendly as other investments.

Do REITs outperform the S&P 500? ›

Over the long term, our research found that REITs have outperformed stocks. Since 1994, three REIT subgroups stood out for their ability to beat the S&P 500. Here's a closer look at these market-beating REIT types.

How do I avoid taxes on my ETF? ›

ETFs can bypass taxable events using the in-kind redemption process, while also purging their portfolios of low-cost-basis securities to help portfolio managers avoid realizing large gains if they must sell holdings. But not all ETFs create and redeem shares in kind.

Do you pay capital gains on REITs? ›

If the REIT held the property for more than one year, long-term capital gains rates apply; investors in the 10% or 15% tax brackets pay no long-term capital gains taxes, while those in all but the highest income bracket will pay 15%.

How long should you hold ETFs? ›

Holding an ETF for longer than a year may get you a more favorable capital gains tax rate when you sell your investment.

What are the risks of REIT ETFs? ›

Some of the main risk factors associated with REITs include leverage risk, liquidity risk, and market risk.

Should I have a REIT ETF in my portfolio? ›

Are REITs Good Investments? Investing in REITs is a great way to diversify your portfolio outside of traditional stocks and bonds and can be attractive for their strong dividends and long-term capital appreciation.

Is it better to invest in REITs or real estate? ›

Direct real estate offers more tax breaks than REIT investments, and gives investors more control over decision making. Many REITs are publicly traded on exchanges, so they're easier to buy and sell than traditional real estate.

What is the 75 75 90 rule for REITs? ›

Invest at least 75% of its total assets in real estate. Derive at least 75% of its gross income from rents from real property, interest on mortgages financing real property or from sales of real estate. Pay at least 90% of its taxable income in the form of shareholder dividends each year.

What is the 80 20 rule for REITs? ›

In situations where all investors submit cash election forms, the dividend payout formula will result in all shareholders receiving their distribution as 20% cash and 80% stock, which means that the cash/stock dividend strategy functions analogously to a pro rata cash dividend coupled with a pro rata stock split.

What are the 3 conditions to qualify as a REIT? ›

Invest at least 75% of total assets in real estate, cash, or U.S. Treasurys. Derive at least 75% of gross income from rent, interest on mortgages that finance real estate, or real estate sales. Pay a minimum of 90% of their taxable income to their shareholders through dividends. Be a taxable corporation.

How much of my retirement should be in REITs? ›

“I recommend REITs within a managed portfolio,” Devine said, noting that most investors should limit their REIT exposure to between 2 percent and 5 percent of their overall portfolio. Here again, a financial professional can help you determine what percentage of your portfolio you should allocate toward REITs, if any.

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